Weird Stuff in the Bible

Raptured to the…Third Heaven? (II Corinthians 12:2)
II Corinthians 12:1-5

Introduction
Paul uses a phrase that I don’t quite know how to interpret, because it’s the only place in the whole Bible that uses this phrase.
II Corinthians 12:2 reads
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven
Wait, who was this guy?
What is the third heaven?
And what happened to the first two?
I mean, some of us know about the Seventh Heaven, if we spent a little too much time watching cheesy Stephen Collins family dramas on the WB as kids. I’d kind of like to forget about that one.
But I DO want to know more about this third heaven, because I find this to be weird, and I’d like to explore why it’s in the Bible.
Turn to II Corinthians 12, and let’s get weird.
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Paul’s Humility in Boasting
Welcome to Weird Stuff in the Bible, where we explore scripture passages that are bizarre, perplexing or just plain weird. This is Luke Taylor, and today we’re going to be talking about what Paul meant about a man being caught up to the third heaven in II Corinthians 12.
And to start off, perhaps we just need to address the context of this chapter.
II Corinthians was written because certain false teachers had infiltrated the church and were trying to disparage Paul and downplay his contributions to the body of Christ. This puts Paul in an uncomfortable position of having to defend himself and his motivations.
Paul wants to be a humble man, but he is forced to quote-unquote boast of his sufferings and his record to prove that he is a legitimate apostle. So when Paul’s accusers say, “he’s just in this for the money,” Paul can say, “I didn’t even take money from you.”
When the false teachers say Paul hasn’t actually been persecuted for Christ, Paul has to talk in chapter 11 about how he was beaten repeatedly with 40 lashes minus one, how he was lost at sea, his numerous imprisonments…
Paul’s a lot more humble than I am, because if I went through all these things, I’d have this stuff all over my LinkedIn profile, I’d be using it to get a book deal at Random House. “And then they stoned me, and I had to escape the city being lowered by a basket through a hole in the wall.”
Paul doesn’t actually want to talk about all this stuff. And finally as he gets to chapter 12, he talks about miraculous or visionary experiences. This is what Paul says as he begins that chapter.
II Corinthians 12:1
I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
And again, Paul doesn’t want to boast in the braggart sense; he is forced to talk about his accomplishments and experiences because he wants to correct the record.
Verse 2
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
Right here, Paul talks about someone who had an experience of a vision of heaven- not just heaven, but the THIRD heaven.
And by the way, it actually says he was “harpazo” or “raptured” up to heaven. Harpazo is the Greek term. When it was translated into Latin, it said he was “raptured” to the third heaven. The English translation of raptured is “caught up.”
So I used the word “raptured” right there because I want to de-stigmatize the word a bit. Some Christians get really up in arms when they hear the word “rapture” because they say, “The rapture isn’t biblical. You won’t find the word rapture in the Bible.” It just doesn’t occur in our English translations, but it’s certainly there. Not only is it there, it’s repeatedly in the Bible. Jesus was raptured after His resurrection. The Two Witnesses are raptured in Revelation 11. The church is raptured in I Thessalonians 4.
So some people will say the rapture isn’t in the Bible, and what they mean is that the rapture of the church isn’t there. We need to stop saying that. We can have good-faith disagreements or debates about the timing of the rapture of the church, but it’s certainly in the Bible.
And raptures are common in Scripture; and no two raptures are the same. The basic meaning of a rapture is to go to heaven without dying. But beyond that, there’s a lot of variety in what can happen in a rapture. The rapture in II Corinthians 12 is about a man going to heaven and then coming back.
So there’s a lot of confusion here because we’re like: who is the man who had these visions?
Most Bible scholars or interpreters will tell you that it’s Paul, but it’s kind of odd that it’s Paul because the way Paul talks about this guy sounds like it’s talking bout someone else.
Verse 3 & 4
And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
So we are told that this man got to see heaven, God’s home, and that it was so beautiful or glorious that he can’t even describe it. It’s beyond words.
He wasn’t even totally sure what was going on, it sounds like. “Was I in the body or out of the body?
Verses 5 and 6
5 On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses— 6 though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me.
So what is he saying right here? Well, here’s how I’m understanding his words.
I think Paul is talking about himself. Paul had a visionary experience at some time in the past; something like when Ezekiel would have visions in his book. If you read Ezekiel in places like chapters 8-11, or chapter 37, or chapter 40, Ezekiel will talk about how God would come and pick him up and carry him somewhere else. When this happens, it seems like Ezekiel has left his body and his soul is traveling- but also, we aren’t really sure if Ezekiel’s body is going along for the ride, too, because he feels like he has a body as he’s going through these experiences. Ezekiel would interact with the world around him in a physical way, so its like, does he have his body with him or not as he’s going through these experiences? It’s hard to say.
And so as Paul is talking about his visionary experience of heaven, Paul wasn’t even sure if he had physically gone to heaven or if just his soul/spirit had left his body and went there. It wasn’t even clear to Paul, so that’s why Paul says: “out of the body or in the body, I do not know.” Did I leave the stove on before I got raptured up to heaven? I do not know.”
Paul would use this story for evangelistic purposes. Paul was given a glimpse of heaven. It was so beautiful, words could not describe it. It was overwhelming. It was exciting.
Paul would relate this experience as He was sharing the Gospel and teaching on heaven to get people excited about heaven. He’s like, “You don’t want to miss heaven. It’s such a wonderful place. Let me tell you what I can about it.”
However, Paul didn’t want the focus to be on him. He didn’t want people to be like, “Oh wow, Paul, aren’t you a cool dude, you must be super-spiritual, you must be a super-duper-Christian since you get these awesome dreams and visions, God actually likes you so much that He showed you what heaven looks like.”
And that’s not Paul’s heart. He wants to talk about the glories of heaven. He wants people to be interested in going to heaven, not hyping up Paul. And so when Paul would tell the story, Paul wouldn’t make it about himself. He didn’t say, “I took a trip to heaven.” Paul would say, “I know of a man who went to heaven.” He was talking about himself, he just didn’t want the conversation to be about himself, so he phrased it in a more vague way.
That’s why he says, “I didn’t want to boast in myself. I don’t want to draw attention to myself.” So apparently, the false teachers in the Corinthian church who were trying to turn everybody against Paul were saying things like, “Paul just wants all the spotlight on himself.” And right here, Paul is using an example to say, “I don’t boast in my strengths- my gifts- my visionary or miraculous experiences- if I boast in anything, I boast in my weaknesses.” And from there, Paul goes on to talk about his thorn in the flesh in the next part of this chapter.

The Third Heaven
So that is the context of this section. But now that we understand that, now let’s go back to
verse two:
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven
So now let’s explain that phrase “the third heaven.” We can actually find the answer when we go back to Jewish cosmology of the time.
They had an understanding that the first heaven was the sky or atmosphere just above our heads. Where you see the birds. The plans. Superman. The second heaven contained the sun and stars and everything else in space.
So in Genesis 1:1, the Bible tells us that
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The heavens are the first and second heaven. God created space. I’ve heard it said that scientists can divide everything in existence up into 5 categories: time, force, action, space, matter.
Scientists say: “…all natural phenomena in the Universe can ultimately be divided into interactions between five basic, fundamental ‘manifestations.’ ”
Again: time, force, action, space and matter.
Well, we actually see all five of those manifestations in the first verse of the Bible.
In the beginning; time.
God; force.
Created; action
The heavens; space
And the earth; matter.
If I were a scientist and I wanted to solve the mysteries of the universe, I would start with studying the Bible.
So in Genesis 1:1, we learn of the first two heavens or the first two layers of what ancient Jews thought of when they thought of heaven: the sky or atmosphere, and then space beyond our atmosphere. Those are the first two heavens; the “heavens” that Genesis 1:1 tells us about.
The third heaven is the highest heaven: God’s home. The place where God dwells. What Jesus meant when He said “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” Heaven is God’s home, where God’s will is always done, where there is no sin, where there are no HOAs; it’s where we go when we die, because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. It’s the place of paradise. It’s a place of inexpressible beauty, as Paul said here. It’s a place of joy unspeakable and full of glory. And no property taxes.
It’s a place where I plan to be someday, and I hope you are planning on going as well someday.
To give you all a hint of where we’re going on the podcast: we’re coming up on the two-year anniversary of the podcast. Last year for the one-year anniversary, I did an interview with a guest. I’m going to try to set up 3-4 interviews for this year, which will be in the month of October.
For one of them, I have reached out to an individual who wrote a book on NDEs or Near-Death Experiences- people who temporarily died and had an experience of the afterlife. Some good, some bad. I’m going to try to have him on the show to discuss his findings from interviewing people.
To some who get uncomfortable with that kind of talk, I understand, and you certainly don’t have to listen if you don’t want to, but this individual is a Christian and related his findings to what the Bible says about heaven and hell. So be praying that this will work out!

Next Time & Mailbag
Next time on this podcast, I actually want to stay right here in II Corinthians 12, because there’s something else weird in this chapter where Paul talks about his thorn in the flesh. Lots of Christians question what it is, and I’m kind of interested in that, too, but the really weird thing to me is the source of this thorn. I will dive into that next week. Make sure you’re subscribed so you can get it!
I’ve had a lot of very kind emails and feedback over the past couple weeks. It’s been very touching and there’s no way I could respond to everybody here, although I did try to respond to everyone privately.
So, a quick shoutout to Oralia, to Kyle who is a new official weirdie, to Renee, to Brittan, to Michelle, to Rachel, to Terry, to Jeff, to Martha and to Patrick. Shoutout as well to the Pearson family, they are a wonderful homeschooling family who said they were listening to the show while they were doing math. They shared that on social media, and hello to all them if they’re listening today. Thanks also to Mr. or Ms. Simpson who left a kind review on Apple Podcasts.
And by the way, if anyone listening doesn’t mind taking a minute and leaving a 5-star review on Apple, I’d greatly appreciate it. You don’t have to type any words in, but if you do type something nice, I include it on the podcast page of the website.
Thank you to Jacob who left this comment on the Masterclass a couple weeks back: Kosmocrator. Thanks for this masterclass! I was just recently introduced to your podcast and immediately gravitated towards the demonology episodes. I was wishing you had it all in one place and lo and behold you post this! How awesome! Keep up the great work! We really appreciate all the time you put in from researching to filming and editing. 
Would it be possible for you to create a graphic of the hierarchy of demons that you talk about and how they interact with each other in some way shape or form? It kind of scrambles my brain a bit with the Greek and how they each play off each other and i think it would be awesome to have visual on that somehow. Thanks again!
That’s a great idea, Jacob. I’m gonna be working on that in the background and try to share that on the newsletter soon once I can wrap my mind around it, too.
Another question I received: Some of my friends say the Earth is flat and that I should believe this too, because its in the Bible. Is that true? Does the Bible teach that the Earth is flat? What should Christians believe about this?
So I’ll share my response here because it relates to some of what we’ve been talking about today:
the Bible certainly does not say the earth is flat. For some reason, lots of people have been theorizing about this on social media lately. But the earth is definitely a sphere, and there's no reason to think that the Bible would teach anything different.

There is the phrase "the four corners of the earth" a few times in the Bible, but this is just an expression that means "everywhere." It actually refers to the four directions (north, south, east, west), not literal corners. Isaiah also mentions the earth being a circle- but that's simply because the word "sphere" didn't exist in Hebrew. What makes that extra amazing, though, is that Isaiah was written before anyone even knew the earth was round. The Bible actually has several scientific claims in it that were written down thousands of years before actual scientists even figured them out. Because the Bible is from God, who made it all! 

I also had this feedback sent in through the website: Pneumatikos is my new favorite word. Also we did not go to the moon. Im trying to promote youre podcast here and if you keep talking nonsense I will turn to a life of sin and listen to Joel olstien
Well, we certainly can’t have that, so I’ll stop talking about space travel now! Because I certainly do not like being threatened with switching over to Joel Osteen!

The Rapture of Philip
One more piece of feedback I have left over from the mailbag episode a few weeks ago:
Josiah B. He had a long email but I’ll just condense it.
I have been catching up by watching all your old episodes and also i have been reading through acts and wanted to point out one more Harpazo that I think you forgot to mention in your rapture episode. Philip in Acts 8:39 says Philip was harpazoed and the Eunich saw him no more. It sounds similar to what happened to Enoch but Philip just teleported to Azotus. Pretty weird!
Yep, that’s a good one. So I looked up all the harpazos in the New Testament- harpazo is the Greek word for being caught up or raptured- and I think this was for episode 21. I was demonstrating that raptures are actually relatively common in Scripture, starting with Enoch, Elijah, and as I mentioned before, even Jesus in the New Testament, as well as the Two Witnesses in Revelation.
Some people treat the doctrine of the rapture of the church like it’s this really outlandish theory; in reality, it’s not that weird in the context of the Bible. Now, if anyone out there listening doesn’t like rapture theology, that’s OK, I’m not mad at you. No need to write an angry letter calling me a heretic or something. Christians have differing ideas about where to place the events of I Thessalonians 4. Not a big deal to me. But I would say there isn’t anything crazy about believing in a rapture.
And in response to Josiah’s email, yes, it does say Philip was caught away in the spirit to a new location in that passage. I was just focusing in episode 21 on the harpazos where people were caught away into heaven. And again, every harpazo or rapture in Scripture is a little different.
I’ll share one last pice of feedback I couldn’t get into from that mailbag episode because I ran out of time:
Chris M from Boston, Massachussetts:
 Loved your last episode on the beasts of the field. It was very insightful!  It’s amazing how God designed creation to teach about the spiritual realm. 

At the opening, you’d mentioned how some believe that the animals and humans used to speak with one language before the fall.  This to me is fascinating, and is sourced from the Dead Sea Scrolls, specifically the Book of Jubilees.

I just thought I’d say, I haven’t heard too much about the book of Jubilees, but it has been coming up more and more lately in some of my studies. So I may have to give it a read sometime soon.
Also, just one follow-up thought I had lately to that episode. He’s referring to episode 80- beasts of the field and other biblical vocabulary for demons. I talked about how the phrase “beasts of the field” in the Bible is often terminology for evil spirits.
And then I had another thought later: the Antichrist is this evil end-times world leader who takes control of the earth for 7 years. Halfway through that 7-year period, he becomes literally indwelt or possessed by Satan.
What is the most common nickname for the Antichrist in Revelation? The Beast.
So while other spiritual beings are called beasts, the Antichrist- who is going to be literally indwelt by Satan- is called THE beast.
And man, when you start digging into confusing passages like beasts of the field or multiple heavens, it’s amazing how you start finding all these threads that connect all the dots of scripture.
And a lot of the weird stuff in the Bible starts to seem a lot less weird the more it all comes together. It fits perfectly with science, with cosmology, and with itself.
The Bible is not weird. WE are weird, because we don’t know about multiple heavens- or multiple harpazos. But now we do. And you didn’t hear it from Joel Osteen. Thanks for listening, God bless you for sticking around until the end, and we’ll see you next time on Weird Stuff in the Bible.